Offensive Combinations - Charizard + Venusaur and Garchomp + Salamence [Kalos-Double]

Hey everybody! A lot of people who start with VGC have played singles before that. While both types of battle do have a lot in common, there is obviously also great differences, most outstandingly the fact, that you may have more than one Pokémon on the battle field at the same time. This leads to a lot of possibilities to have Pokémon support each other. 

Moves like Wide Guard, Helping Hand or Trick Room are mostly used to tap out the full potential of another Pokémon.

It is generally a good advice to have a team in which the Pokémon can benefit from each other and complement the others in a way were they function as a real team, rather than only independent Pokémon.

However, from time to time, there is two or sometimes even three or more Pokémon, that help each other in a very elaborate way. These groups are often referred to as “cores”. This analysis touches two cores, offensively as well as defensively, and gives basic ideas about how to build a proper team in which the members truly appreciate the presence of the others as well as how to counter two of the most dangerous combinations out there!

The Fox is gone, but not the Sun! - Mega Charizard Y + Venusaur 

The first core I want to take a look at is Mega Charizard-Y plus Venusaur. This core is a basic start whenever you want to put a lot of pressure to the opponent and overwhelm them with the pure power of Charizard-Y. While its stats and ability are pretty good, its typing, which has been its major flaw in the past years, ensures that Charizard is very likely to be OHKO’d by any Rock Slide or Stone edge and takes a lot of damage of the very common Electric and Water moves. The mega evolution raises the SpDef, but the Defence and HP stats are pretty low compared to other common Pokémon.

When the power of Charizard-Y was discovered, the first thing to do was to run 252 EVs on Special Attack and Speed, along with a Timid nature. It often came together with Venusaur, which of course benefits from Drought, as it receives a speed boost. Even though Charizard has access to Solar Beam on its own, the addition of STAB Giga Drain from Venusaur means, that Water-types will think twice before switching into Charizard, or being picked to begin with. 

However, this combination had one very big flaw, which is the weakness to Talonflame plus Garchomp. Galewings STAB Brave Bird shuts down Venusaur pretty hard, while Garchomp can OHKO Charizard with a single Rock Slide! It seemed like Charizard could only be a niche Pokémon at most. However, the SoCal Regional proved the critics wrong, as BadIntent and kingofkongs both managed to advance to the finals with their respective Charizard + Venusaur team! 

So, judging from the results, it is probably a good thing to give this core another look! 

Venusaur @ Coba Berry

Trait: Chlorophyll

EVs: 228 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 20 Spd

Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

- Giga Drain/Grass Pledge/Leaf Storm

- Protect

- Sludge Bomb

- Sleep Powder /Hidden Power Ice

20 Speed EVs ensure to outspeed even Timid max speed Mega Manectric by one point. Max SAtk is recommended, as Venusaur wants to function as a bulky sweeper that can provide support with Sleep Powder, but also be able to hit Pokémon like Rotom-W, Ludicolo, Abomasnow, Gardevoir, Azumarill, Tyranitar, Politoed, Rhyperior and many more that its STABs are super effective on, for decent damage. HP Ice could be chosen over Sleep Powder to deal with Lum Berry Garchomp as well as Salamence.

252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 228 HP / 4 Def Venusaur: 192-228 (104.3 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

However, even non-boosted adamant Talonflame’s Brave Bird easily One-Hit-KO’s Venusaur, so Coba Berry is used in order to reduce the effectiveness of this threat. 

Adamant Life-Orb Brave Bird only does 67.9 - 80.4% to Coba Venusaur and even adamant Choice Band fails to KO as it does 78.5 - 91.8 %! Sludge Bomb does 62.3 to 74% in return, so after all the recoil Talonflame gets when attacking it with Brave Bird, Venusaur can KO it. While Coba Berry is a very situational Item, I would still recommend trying it out as other items such as Sitrus Berry, Life Orb or Lum Berry are usually better off on other Pokémon. The alternative is to use Black Sludge or Leftovers to regain health, but being able to beat Talonflame is superior in my opinion. 

Charizard (F) @ Charizardite Y

Trait: Solar Power

EVs: 92 HP / 4 Def / 212 SAtk / 44 SDef / 156 Spd

Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

- Heat Wave/Flamethrower

- Protect

- Solar Beam

- Overheat/Fire Pledge/Roost/Air Slash

As I said earlier, 4/252/252 Timid was the way to run Charizard in the past, but things have changed!

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 92 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 150-177 (90.9 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO 

252 Atk Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 92 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 156-184 (94.5 - 111.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO 

4 Atk Salamence Rock Slide vs. 92 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 136-160 (82.4 - 96.9%)
4- Atk Life Orb Salamence Rock Slide vs. 92 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 156-187 (94.5 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO 

252 SpA Life Orb Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 92 HP / 44 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 109-130 (66 - 78.7%) 

116+ SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 92 HP / 44 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 114-134 (69 - 81.2%)

It can be seen, that investing some EVs into bulk means that Charizard is not OHKO’d as easily, while a modest nature means that it will still hit even harder than the Timid set.

212+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Rotom-W: 146-174 (92.9 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

With the given EV spread, Charizard hits harder and is more bulky, only at the cost of speed. 156 EVs allow to outpace all Modest Rotom-Applications as well as stuff like Smeargle or Kingdra outside of rain.

How to complement the core

Pokémon that can provide even more support to this and take out the counters of Charizard-Y and Venusaur are Mienshao, Scrafty, Garchomp, Gyarados, Mamoswine, Rotom-W.

Mienshao and Scrafty can provide Fake Out support, as well as Wide Guard and Quick Guard respectively. This allows them to protect the team from either Rock Slide or moves like Galewings Brave Bird. Scrafty and Gyarados come with Intimidate, that turns most Rock Slides into 2HKOs. Mamoswine and Rotom-W are generally good tools to stop Garchomp from wrecking the combo. Both, Mamoswine and Garchomp enjoy using Earthquake when Charizard is on the field, in order to prevent damage to the ally. They are also pretty good answers to Chandelure and Tyranitar, two Pokémon that give ChariVenu a lot of trouble.

Dragon Buddies - Garchomp + Salamence

The next combination I want to touch is the very popular DoubleDragon Garchomp plus Salamence that has had a lot of success recently.

While it might seem redundant to have two dragon-types that both share weaknesses to Ice, Dragon and Fairy, Garchomp Salamence is a very good example for an offensive combination. While neither of them is super fast, both are sitting at a comfortable 100 and 102 base speed respectively. Despite the addition of the fairy type, dragon is still a primary attacking choice and allows these two Pokémon that might seem to be very similar at first, to perform that well together. 

The last time when these two made quite a splash was when Jumpei Yamamoto used them side by side in 2012 to claim second place at the Japanese National Championship.

The obvious parts in which Garchomp and Salamence complement one another is the fact that Salamence is a flying type and Garchomp may therefore use Earthquake freely. But there is a lot more than that! Despite its sky-high attack stat, most Salamence go either special or mixed these days. One of the main Pokémon that gives pure special Salamence trouble is Tyranitar with its super high special defence in sand. Garchomp, of course, loves to take on Tyranitar. Similarly, Rotom-W is able to shut down most Garchomp pretty handily, as Sitrus Berry ensures it is not 2HKOd, while Will-O-Wisp cripples Garchomp. Salamence on the other hand, doesn’t mind to be burned and loves to fire off Draco Meteor on Rotom to get it down to less than 50% after Sitrus Berry kicked in. While Rotom-W might not be the best example, as it can also damage Salamence and is never OHKOd, it shows that Garchomp and Salamence are especially strong when they combine their attacks, since Rotom-W falls to Draco Meteor after it was hit with a Dragon Claw first. With Garchomp covering the physical, Salamence taking on the special spectrum and phenomenal coverage, they have very little bad matchups. Even the steel fairy Mega Mawile does not beat them at all, because of Earthquake and Fire Blast/Flamethrower. Since Dragon is super effective on Dragon vice versa and the fact that there is only very little ice types and even fewer that can take Fire Blast or Draco Meteor, the only really hard counter to the Dragon duo is fairy-types like Gardevoir or Azumarill, that can easily take on the non-STAB attacks. It is therefore recommended to add a steel-type to this combo, such as Mega Mawile, Scizor or Aegislash. 

Salamence @ Life Orb

Ability: Intimidate

EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature

- Flamethrower

- Draco Meteor

- Stone Edge / Rock Slide / Hydro Pump

- Protect

Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf

Trait: Intimidate

EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 244 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd

Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

- Draco Meteor

- Dragon Pulse

- Fire Blast/Flamethrower

- Hydro Pump/Rock Slide

Salamence can go either with Life Orb or Choice Scarf. It is rarely seen with Choice Specs, too, so keep that in mind when playing against it! 

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet/Lum Berry/Focus Sash

Ability: Rough Skin

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Jolly Nature

- Earthquake

- Dragon Claw

- Rock Slide/Substitute/Stone Edge

- Protect

As you can see, the sets are very simple at the moment and it is not that difficult to use either of them, too. Yet, it is so difficult to shut these down without limiting your resources! In the Japanese metagame, Gardevoir has kind of established as a very good counter to them. I also used Scarf Gardevoir in the past and I can confirm that it helps a ton! However, I think that the dominating Gardevoir set will be a bulky Sitrus Berry version that is capable of taking several hits. I recommend to try that out! 

Again, the beauty of this duo is not that they cover each other’s weaknesses, instead, they even add up! The good thing about Salamence + Garchomp is that they have superior type coverage offensive-wise and can beat a lot of threats by double targeting them. Another option this duo is capable off, is to double Rock Slide, which has a pretty nice chance of flinching either of the opponnet’s Pokémon. Therefore, you should try to outspeed them!

On top of that, Garchomp and Salamence can easily fit in any type of team, may it be a sun based team or a sand team, a team with Tailwind or just a very general goodstuff team. 

As these two are dominating the metagame right now, it is very important to keep them in mind during the team building process. I’d like to show you some Pokémon I have used in the past, that are able to beat or at least put a lot of pressure on the Dragons!

How to become a Dragonslayer

Manectric (M) @ Manectite

Trait: Lightningrod

EVs: 60 HP / 244 SAtk / 204 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

-Volt Switch / Thunderbolt

-Overheat / Flamethrower / Snarl

-Protect

-Hidden Power Ice

Mega Manectric outspeeds non-scarfed variants and is able to one-shot non-bulky Garchomp and Salamence with Hidden Power Ice. It also has Intimidate as ability, which helps a ton in dealing with Garchomp. 204 Speed EVs allow to outspeed Choice Scarfed Chandelure, Gardevoir and Mamoswine. Overheat one-shots non-bulky Mega Mawile, while Volt Switch resets the special attack drop and Intimidate. Snarl is another option to cripple special sweepers and could be used to deal with Salamence more easily. 

Gardevoir @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Telepathy / Trace

EVs: 52 HP / 28 Def / 196 SAtk / 4 SDef / 228 Spd

Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

- Dazzling Gleam

- Moonblast

- Psychic

- Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball

Choice Scarf Gardevoir is a pretty good check to ChompMence, as it outspeeds and OHKO’s both of them with Moonblast. The speed EVs ensure to outspeed max speed timid Noivern, while the Special Attack EVs guarantee to KO Garchomp that has a little bit invested into bulk. The rest is put into HP and Def because the SDef is naturally high.

Recently, we have also seen things like Ice Punch Scrafty, Hidden Power Ice Choice Scarf Rotom-H or Ice Fang Gyarados to be viable checks to Garchomp and Salamence. However, all of them do not like to take a boosted Draco Meteor. 

Another Pokémon that has been overshadowed by Garchomp and Salamence in the past, but might be a good call at the moment, is Noivern.

Noivern @ Life Orb / Focus Sash

Ability: Infiltrator / Frisk

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Draco Meteor

- Flamethrower

- Protect

- Tailwind / Air Slash

Noivern is a pretty interesting Pokémon, that outspeeds and OHKO’s the other Dragons with Draco Meteor. It is especially interesting, because it doesn’t need a Choice Scarf to outpace the majority of the metagame and, when equipped with a Life Orb, it hits 8,4% harder than Modest Scarf Salamence, while having free move choice! I think Noivern is pretty underrated at the moment and should get more usage in the future. Infiltrator is very cool against Substitute and Screens, while Frisk allows you to gain information over the opponent’s items and might help against unorthodox Item choices, such as random Choice Scarf or Focus Sash.

Greninja @ Life Orb / Focus Sash

Ability: Protean

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Hydro Pump

- Ice Beam

- Dark Pulse

- Mat Block / Protect

Greninja is one of those Pokémon that is just able to outspeed and OHKO a lot of stuff, while being very frail. Therefore, it can be useless in some games, but a deadly weapon in the right hands! Protean gave it one of the best offensive abilities, while Mat Block is a unique way to support the team. Ice Beam is of course the Dragon-killer on this set, while the other moves provide good neutral coverage. Dark Pulse comes with a handy chance to flinch. I think this Pokémon’s full potential hasn’t been exploited just yet and I am very interested in seeing whether it is able to claim a place in the most commonly used Pokémon in VGC14 or not.

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Sand Stream

EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd 

Timid Nature

- Rock Slide / Ancient Power

- Dark Pulse

- Ice Beam

- Fire Blast

The last set I would like to share with you is special Choice Scarf Tyranitar. While most Tyranitar tend to go special these days, I think Choice Scarf is a pretty nice surprise item on it, as it allows the rather slow sand-setter to reach a respectable speed stat of 186, which is enough to outpace Mega Lucario, Adamant Talonflame and Aerodactyl and of course Garchomp and Salamence, too! Rock Slide is generally used over Ancient Power due to multiple targets and the chance to flinch, but it is no fun to face a +1/+1/+1/+1/+1 Tyranitar! Ice Beam one-shots Garchomp and Salamence. I am sure this Tyranitar will catch a lot of players off-guard and it has helped me to gain some good victories in the past!

I hope this list encourages some of you to try unorthodox counters to the dominating double dragon. Of course, there is a lot more out there, as Wolfe Glick has proven at the Virginia Regional with Mr.Mime!

- Markus